Billie Melissa Rogan is a writer, director, activist, and podcaster active online in the film community. In this interview joined by Danny Jarabek, we discuss her upcoming debut short film I Love You, Guys and how the story and film were ultimately made stronger by the obstacles of the pandemic. We also discuss her inspirations as a filmmaker and upcoming projects.

I Love You, Guys is written by Cory Varney, directed by Billie Melissa Rogan, and produced by Static Flow Productions and Jumpsuit Studios.

I do feel a responsibility as a filmmaker to make sure that people feel more compassionate and empathetic when they leave any film that I make, people should always feel like they understand themselves or understand someone in their lives a little bit better.

Billie Melissa Rogan

Danny Jarabek: Hello. This is Danny Jarabek, host of the Rolling Tape Podcast. And today I am delighted to be joined by Billie Melissa Rogan. She is a podcaster, activist, filmmaker, director, screenwriter, and I am so excited to be talking with her today. She is the director of I Love You Guys! And Billie, welcome to the show. I’m so happy to have you.

Billie Melissa Rogan: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. You gave me an identity crisis with listing all of those things.

DJ: Well, I am a big fan of all your film content and super happy to have you on the show today. And so just to kick it off, I would love to give you the opportunity to talk about your interest in film, how you became involved in film and just your story to what brought you to doing what you’re doing now.

BMR: Yeah, so it kind of goes back to about I mean, I studied film at A-level which in the UK is age like 16 to 18. And I grew up wanting to act. And so, my interest was primarily in theater. But I took film as a substitute for law. I was going to do law, and then I chose to take film studies. I don’t know how that ended up happening, but like, thank goodness I did because I think that if I didn’t do that, then I wouldn’t have ended up in film at all. But I went to drama school. It was really traumatic. Anyone who’s been to a UK drama school knows this trauma. And then so when you come out the other end, you have a massive identity crisis. And I just didn’t know what to do. And the only place where I could get some refuge from those feelings was the cinema because it was just like quiet for two to 3 hours. And it was all that you could think about was like, what was going on in front of you. And then I’m going to have to do it again. Apologize for mentioning David O. Russell’s name, but I saw his film Joy in 2016, and I feel like Jennifer Lawrence, like, defined our generation. She just came in with Hunger Games and then just kept giving great stuff like Silver Linings, American Hustleand then Joy. But seeing Joy, I was like, identifying with her situation of feeling like there was something that you really were meant to do, but you just didn’t know how to do it. And everything was working against you. So, I applied to film school just because I was like, no, I want to try and direct. And then, yeah, I got into film school, spent three years there. I loved every second of it. Had my doubts. Wanted to be an editor. Tried to convince myself that I wanted to be an editor, that knew that I really wanted to be a director, and then kind of came to the film Twitter community and met a bunch of filmmakers there and then ended up making I Love You Guys. I was like, I guess I have to direct now because I’ve done it, and I couldn’t imagine doing anything else. I think, especially at being a female in the industry, you tell yourself a lot that there’s, like, a lot of other things that you could be doing that would make you happy, just because you have to tell yourself that because, I don’t know, the industry is set up to kind of work against you at times. And I was, like, in film school during the Me Too era, so that was fun to me, watching that go down. But then Lady Bird happened, and it changed everything. So that’s a really long-winded way of being like, I was depressed, and now I’m a filmmaker.

DJ: Lady Bird came around and changed us all for the better.

BMR: It’s true. It really did change. And I think that any woman who’s in the industry now or, like, young woman who’s in the industry now has a lot to credit for seeing the impact of that film and how it just changed so many of our beliefs in our own stories and things like that. So Greta Gerwig, she’s my person.

DJ: Well, weirdly enough, we’re actually doing a podcast in a few weeks covering Lady Bird. So, I’m super excited because it’s one of my favorite all time movies.

BMR: I can’t wait to hear that. Who is talking with you about it?

DJ: I think we have Bryan. I’m sure Bryan will be there. We both know Bryan. And we have a guest from the Feelin Film podcast, too that’s joining the episode.

BMR: Ah Okay!

DJ: Yeah. So, it’ll be super fun. But talking about you, of course, you have a directorial debut short film called I Love You Guys. And so, I would love to just have you elaborate on what that film is and just talk about your process to how that film came to be and just the vision behind it all.

BMR: Yeah, so I got sent the script in April of 2019, and it was originally, like, in the vein of Searching the dark web, things like the things that were online and primarily through the computer. And it was just about a young singer who was kind of, like on the come up. Her career was about to change for the best or for the worst, I guess. She was, like, gaining traction in the industry. And then I kind of went back with a mood board and was like, this is how I would imagine it. And then it kind of just developed more and more over us talking about it. They came out of that world and into more of a traditional structure. There’s still some technical elements in there that we wanted to keep. And actually, the other day, someone who had seen our test screening of it had mentioned Searching in reference to and I was like, that’s so funny because that’s, like, something that we had all the way back when I first got the script. But it’s interesting that people still pick up on that. So, it is very much rooted in that. Like, how having a lot of eyes on us in this day and age kind of dictates our career and where we feel like we should be going. But it stars Becky Bush. She’s incredible. She’s our lead as Sky. And then we got Celi Crossland as Taylor and Pedro Leandro as Ryan. And it was a long process. So, I got the script in April 2019. We had a cast by November 2019, had, like, a final class by January 2020, had funding by March 2020, and then COVID happened, and we had to go into lockdown, and we didn’t start rolling until May 2021, which is such a long time. But I always say that it was for the best, completely for the best that we got all of those delays because it means we had so many, like, different reference points. And also, I feel like just the pandemic in general affected the story because it is about isolation and loneliness and going through things internally, which I feel like a lot of people are dealing with. So I feel kind of sad that it was born out of that because, I don’t know, I feel like people nowadays want to watch something that’s a little bit more cathartic. So, we’ve kind of gone back to the pandemic and put all of those themes back into it. But, yeah, there’s original music in it. It’s wonderful. Our reference points were Herand I, Tonya. Those were, like, our through line films that we kept coming back to because of the way they deal with loneliness specifically, and with the pursuit of dreams.

DJ: Well, Her and I, Tonya. Her is, first of all, one of my favorite movies of all time. And I feel like, mixed with I, Tonya, that’s such a fascinating concept, too, like, dealing with the loneliness, but also the competitiveness of the world. If you’re out there listening and you enjoy the premises and themes of those films, then I think I Love You Guys, would certainly be something that you should check out.

BMR: We have stolen, like there are so many shots. I don’t know if I should even say this, but, like, shots that I’ve directly been just pass on to my cinematographer. And I was like, I want this because I’m more of a performance-based director than a technical director. I don’t know how to talk cameras, so I just like show pictures. I described it the other day. Someone was like, going to the hairdresser and showing them, like, a picture of what you want. That is what I was like with my cinematographer. I was like, I want this. And she was like, what ratio? And I was like, I don’t know, you figure it out. But she did an amazing job, and she’s incredible. And I can’t wait for everyone to see what she has done. I can’t wait for everyone to see just like, see what everyone in this cast and crew has done. They are the most talented, nicest people. And I’m just excited. It’s been so long. I just can’t wait for people to see it.

DJ: Yeah, absolutely. I’m sure that is something that there’s just probably so much excitement for you as a director to finally get people to see it. And I know you’re starting that process, and it will be happening soon. But going back to you mentioned some of your cast, Becky Bush, Celi Crossland, and Pedro Leandro. What was the process of finding them and choosing them as the right people for this story?

BMR: Yeah, so we kind of went the traditional way in the UK. Like, putting it up on casting sites, and we had huge amounts of people I don’t know I could ever remember the exact number, but I feel like it was like roughly 700 for the lead role and then maybe like 300 for the two supporting roles. So, watching a lot of people’s show reels, and then I think we had a few people, like, submit from Twitter. We were just watching everyone that we kind of thought would be good for the role based on what they had done previously. And I actually, the other day, found the original emails of me, the producer, the writer, or it’s like, me, the three producers, the writer, putting our list of who we’d like to audition. I found those for the first time since I had them the other day. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so long ago now. But Becky Bush was the first person to audition for anything. She’s the first person in the room. And the second she left, I was just, like, desperate to bring her back. I was like, she’s perfect. And it’s not even to say that everyone who came in after her was not on par. They were wonderful. Everyone who auditioned for us was so talented. But she does what I love with actors is that everything comes from her eyes, and she doesn’t need to speak. And you know exactly what she’s thinking and feeling because it’s so important for her role, because she spends so much time alone, she has to really carry that. And I just could see in the audition room that she knew exactly how to do that. And then Celi and Pedro. I think Pedro auditioned. Pedro auditioned the same day. I don’t know that Celi did. I feel like she might have been a self-tape. But it was great piecing those three together because we cast Becky first, and then we brought people for Taylor and Ryan back in January to play opposite her and see what was the best. But yeah, so they came back. The people who were auditioning for Taylor and Ryan came back in January. And we played them opposite Becky. Because there are only three central roles in the film, they have to be perfect. People have to believe that chemistry. And the second we saw Celi opposite Becky, we were like, yes, that’s perfect, has to be that. And then same with Pedro. I think we might have only had two or three for each character to come back, but that was like a whole day Becky was involved in choosing. And the film just became, like a really collaborative effort. Like, as we added more people, more people were bringing themselves and their ideas to the film. And so, like, it was really built as, like, one thing. Yeah, I know. I love casting. Having been an actress, I love actors. I love having them in the room. I know how important it is to be nice and respectful in auditions. I know some directors just don’t have the capacity to go to their auditions. But I think it’s something that throughout my career, I want to make sure of that. Someone’s going to send this to me in ten years and be like, you weren’t in the audition for that, so I’m going to take that back. But for now, I love auditioning people.

DJ: Well, I’m sorry if this podcast ever gets you into trouble in the future, but I’m sure if anyone is listening to just the way you talk about your cast and crew, that they would be super excited just to work alongside you. You talked about how you had kind of reached a milestone in March 2020, and we all know what happened in the ensuing time, but something you mentioned also, of course, the script came to you a year before the pandemic and was dealing with some themes that became also sort of more resonant in a weird way during the pandemic. Now that we’re hopefully past the pandemic, how did things evolve in terms of the story, in terms of how maybe your vision changed with the production process? How did things change once the pandemic became a factor?

BMR: I think for us, like everybody when it first happened, we had no idea of the impact that it was going to have. We just assumed we’ll be able to shoot by April or May. And then as time went on, I think it just became evident that it was always meant to be made when it was supposed to be made because we just had so many reference points coming up. We had the Billie Eilish documentary and then even as late up until just before we, because we filmed in three blocks, so we didn’t just film all in May 2021. We filmed a block in May 2021. Then we filmed another block in November. I always get these dates wrong. I think it was November 2021, and then we wrapped filming in, like, July of 2022. And so really it took I think it was like 14 month’s worth until we had completely shot everything. And I think it’s funny because a lot of the other directors that I’ve spoken to who are friends of mine, they’re like, that’s a dream to get to have that much of a break between things. And while it’s frustrating in the moment because you’re like, I just want to get this done, especially when you have that much of a break between the first and last camera rolling. But for us, we just felt that so many things were coming out that were relevant to us like Elvis came out just before we shot the concept scenes. I’m trying to think of other things. It was mainly like the Billie Eilish documentary, I remember seeing that snd it’s like because none of us are in the music industry except for our songwriter, so it’s difficult to really know what that looks like. But that was so intimate and so private and such a behind the scenes look at what it feels like. It’s dealing with a lot of the themes that we were dealing with. But I don’t know, I feel like it always seems really gross to say because obviously there’s so much that was devastating about the pandemic, and it’s just horrible and no one would ever be like, oh, it’s so great that that happened. But the time that we had to be able to make the film was like a real blessing to us because it meant that not only did we grow with ideas, like, we grew as in talents as well. I think you can’t really see it, but you can kind of see how everyone’s talents grew between the actors who were already incredible, but they were only more incredible by the time it came to the end. The same with all the technical team and even myself as a director. I’d shot a documentary, I think, like a week before I filmed the last block and I did most of the directing over Zoom. So I was only in person for one night shoot, and then the rest I was kind of over Zoom and managing from afar. I think it made us better just filmmakers. Like, we knew we had to tackle so many different hurdles that I feel like people didn’t know about. There’s always excuses when you’re making a film. Like, oh, we’ll just pause. We’ll just hold off. But we really found ways around it. And it was crowdfunded by mostly people that we’d met online. And we felt like a real duty to get it finished for them and make sure it was the best it could possibly be. And I don’t think it would have been the best it could possibly be if we didn’t have all of that time between to kind of grow as talents and grow with influences. We take everything and we look at it as like, it was a really great thing that we got the chance to have that, of course, horrible, like, devastating circumstances, but yeah, I wouldn’t change it now. I wouldn’t go back and be like, get it all done in those few days. Because we also got a final amount of funding so it wasn’t just crowdfunded. It was also I think it was, well I don’t want to say because if I get it wrong, it’s wrong. I don’t want to get in trouble with my producers, but we got a final amount of funding from, like, a local fulfillment fund, which we then which is great because, like, we usually just go and shoot, but, like, we had something to show to be like, look, this is what we’re making. And then other people got to believe in it and add to it. So, yeah, no, I’m grateful for the time it took. And I think it’s like the best it possibly could be from that.

DJ: Yeah, that’s so amazing to hear because obviously, I’m sure in the moment when we were all terrified and living in this unprecedented landscape and none of us knew what was going to happen. There’s probably a lot of fear about projects like this that you might not know what’s going to come to fruition after so much time went into it. And there’s also something that I find really fascinating too with stories that were written before the pandemic, but then became resonant in kind of new ways due to the feelings that we had globally. And that’s something that I think is just really fascinating. But going back to you, thinking of you as a writer and director, I’m interested to hear what are some things that you value as a storyteller? Maybe it’s some themes that you like to explore. Things that kind of identify the stories that you like to tell, and you might want to explore in the future, but also things that came from your education, anything that makes you, you as a storyteller?

BMR: Yeah, I feel it’s like an ongoing crisis. It’s constantly evolving and trying to find what you’re interested in. I think for me, I was really lucky because it’s very difficult to be given someone else’s script. So, like, for I Love You, Guys. I didn’t write it. It was written by Cory Varney, and he gave me the script. And it’s such, like, a trust exercise as a writer to hand your words off to someone else to go at it. But I could really see themes inside of that, of this insistent pressure that we put on ourselves to pursue our dreams and then when we reach them, they’re not exactly what we thought they were going to be. And so that element of it is I think what I found most interesting inside of it and also what I kind of find interesting in stories in general is, like, this really? I don’t know. I feel like I’ve been having this conversation a lot this week about the meaning of media and the responsibility of media and how much people place into the value of it in our lives. So I think of things that, like, films that I love and how important they are to me and how I don’t believe that film is, like, a guide for living because there’s a lot of irresponsible film out there, and not every film should be, like, a handbook for how you should go about your life. But I do feel responsibility as a filmmaker to make sure that people feel more compassionate and empathetic when they leave any film that I make, people should always feel like they understand themselves or understand someone in their lives a little bit better. I’m not always the easy person to root for. Like, I love the film Can You Ever Forgive Me? Where it’s not necessarily a likable lead, though I think she’s wonderful. I think she’s a very likable character, but she’s described as a horrible woman. It’s such a trope in film of, like, you’d never say about a male character, that’s another conversation. I just like when we’re allowed to like the people that we’re not like. I’ve done work with families who have loved ones on death row, and we primarily work towards telling the story that they want to tell, not the story about the crime or anything like that. It’s much more about the person and just, like, humanizing all of these people that we’ve told everyone that these people, we quite literally take away the humanity and we’re like, they’re monsters that’s like the past. That kind of language is dangerous. I’m kind of split as a filmmaker between work like that and work that it kind of really just comes back to exactly why I came to film in the first place, of understanding yourself and life a little bit better because it’s so lonely. It can be so, so lonely, like living, which sounds sad, but even like we’ve already spoken about it in this podcast about COVID making us feel so lonely and how it’s altered our reality. And also social media. Like, we’re the first generation growing up with that. And that has made us I don’t know, that’s a whole other debate I’m not even going to go into. But that’s like, I don’t know. There’s something so interesting about the way that we experience emotions now that we can always come back to film and we can always have that as a place to be like, oh, I’m not alone. Whatever I think I’m going through alone. Like, someone understands that even if it’s not my exact situation portrayed on screen, I just want people to be able to, like, connect for me. Like my favorite films are Lady Bird, 20th Century Women, American Hustle, Joy, Silver Linings. And I think all of those are very much about taking people who aren’t supposed to be easy to root for and making them human again. And just I think that is the important. That’s like the responsibility of film. And when it’s done best, that is what we get out of it. And it’s so hard to answer that question concisely because there are so many things I could say about, like, stories that I’m interested in, I’d love to tell. I think I’ve always said that my two main projects I would like to do is a film adaptation of the musical Parade and The Hunchback of Notre Dame Live Action. Disney, I swear, if you make that before I’m ready, I’m going to remake it at some point because I know you’re going to do it wrong, and I am the only person who can make it. This is my plea to Disney, don’t make it yet.

DJ: Disney, if you’re listening.

BMR: Disney, if you’re listening, I know that Josh Gad has his eye on it, but please just don’t just wait. I promise it will be worth it. So, yeah, those are my two. Like, one day I’ll make those and I’m just going to ignore them if they get made beforehand. I mean, those didn’t happen. We’re making them again. We’re making them in the right way.

DJ: No, that’s absolutely incredible to hear those influences and those qualities that are so important to you as a storyteller. And I think that’s just so much of what unites us as people who love film, too. And part of the reason that I wanted to reach out to you in the first place was because I knew just how passionate you were about what you do and I think that clearly shows in the way that you talk about it. But what’s coming up next for you because I hear that you have another screenplay, and you are looking to get back into another film?

BMR: Yeah, I’ve really like plowed ahead with this one where I Love You, Guys. I was very patient. I’m the complete opposite with this film. I’m like, it has to be made. And it has to be made this year. And if it outlives this year, I’m going to go crazy. Like, it needs to be off the page and into the world as soon as possible. It’s 15 minutes, two actors, one location, an incredibly personal story about two best friends who are stuck in the what could have been. It’s called The Intimacy of Privacy. I wrote it originally as a feature at the end of 2021 and turned it into a short in 2022 and then ignored it until, like, earlier this year when I was thinking because we screened I Love You, Guys and it was finally, like or it was like, coming to be finished, I was like, I should probably make something else now. What should I do? And then really, this story is like the one that has to be told for me before I do anything else. I’ve never been like that with anything before. I’m always very flirtatious with other ideas and wanting to do something else. But this film will be a thorn in my side until it gets made. It’s early stages. I’ve spoken with some people. I’m still looking for producers, funding. I’m figuring it out. I’m saying it, it will get done this year and it will be out in the world this year. Then that’s already scary because I have at least two other films that are supposed to come out this year. I Love You, Guys definitely is. There’s another documentary that I’m supposed to have come out and then this film. And then there was supposed to be one other, but I’m not sure if that will be pushed back. There’s a lot going on. I feel like COVID really did just release everything. There were so many different things that were supposed to be happening and then just didn’t. And now everything’s happening at once. And I’m like, I don’t have the time anymore. My mind is stuck on this one film. So, yeah, a lot coming out this year and hopefully all good stuff. I very much believe in this film more than anything that I’ve done in the past. Take with that what you will. Everyone watch it and be like, it’s the last thing you make.

DJ: I am, of course, extremely excited to see everything that you do both with I Love You, Guys coming out this year and everything else that you have going on because it sounds like you have a lot of exciting work ahead and a lot of exciting things that you’ll be doing over the next year plus hopefully a long time to come.

BMR: Someone the other day was like Christmas was long time ago. And I was like, was it really? And then I think it’s like March. And I’m like, it kind of was a long time ago. It’s really scary. Like a third of the way into the end.

DJ: Well, just to close out here, I always do one wrap up question with all of our interviews, and that is, of course, who is someone that maybe you’ve met in the industry or someone that you’ve worked with before that you would recommend coming on the show to have a similar conversation to what we’ve had today? Someone maybe that you would love to hear that you think would be fascinating to have this conversation about?

BMR: I have a great friend, collaborator called Levi Aluede who I think would be perfect. They’re really making waves in the British film industry, have been described as someone else by the British Barry Jenkins, which I agree with wholeheartedly and just selfishly. I would love to listen to them, like, see about all of their thoughts and feelings on what they’re really and they have so much coming out. It’s so crazy because short films always I don’t know, people always are just like it’s a stepping stone. But they’ve really made something. They showed it in London cinema before Ema. It’s spelled like EMA. And it’s called is it by Pablo Larraine? I don’t know. 

DJ: Oh yes, I know what you’re talking about.

BMR: They played it before that film. There was like a season being screened ahead of that film. It was called The Smell of Cut Grass. And it’s great. I’ve seen it. It’s wonderful. And yeah, just to hear everything that is coming up, get them before they’re exploding in the industry

DJ: That sounds like a plan.

BMR: “Years ago, I was ahead of the trend.”

DJ: Well, the British Barry Jenkins, that’s probably one of the coolest introductions to a filmmaker that I could imagine.

BMR: I know, I saw someone say it the other day, and sometimes people just being nice, but it really is true, I promise.

DJ: Well, that sounds incredible. Thank you so much for your time, Billie. I really appreciate you spending some time to chat with me today and about your work. Is there any last things that you would love to where can people find you? Anything that you’d like to promote before we close out?

BMR: Yes, I’m @billiemellisa_ on Twitter and Instagram. And then our film is I-L-Y-G movie on Twitter and Instagram. And I guess you’ll be able to find it there. Not if, when we get into festivals and if we screen near you, then all the information will be there. And yeah, keep an eye out.

DJ: Well, maybe we’ll have to chat again when the film is out and about. So I very much look forward to it.

BMR: I can’t wait. I just want to send it to everyone. But the cut is like one cut before being done where I show everyone this cut and I’ll be like, you should have just waited so you could have seen the final thing. But the second I get that no, I’m not going to say that because my producers will yell at me. I was going to say the second I get that in my inbox, it’s going out to everyone. It’s not. I promise.

DJ: The second your producers allow you to show it to the right people.

BMR: I’m joking. I promise I’m joking. They’re like, you’re not joking you’ve shown so many people already.

DJ: Well, thank you again.

BMR: No, thank you.

DJ: This was amazing. I really appreciated this chat, and I always love talking with filmmakers who show so much passion about what they do as you do. And so thank you for that.

BMR: No, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

DJ: All right, we’ll chat soon.